L'IC10 c'est quoi çà ?
- David Balkwill
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18 years 11 months ago #39563
by David Balkwill
David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18
Replied by David Balkwill on topic Re: L'IC10 c'est quoi çà ?
Its interesting to see you canoe sailors thinking about your future. Apart from the addition of the spinnaker, there has been little change to the boats, which used to feel totally extreme, but are looking quite conservative these days. Small sail area, wide stable hull shape and relatively heavy construction, just strange compared to anything else.
The proposed hull designs look very surprising to me, much less stable, with lower wetted surface areas, and some extraordinarily extended bow sections linked to the almost traditional canoe sterns.
What are you aiming for ?
Is this about bringing new sailors into the class who might be more tempted by newer designs like the RS700 or Musto Skiff, or some of your American newcomers, (what is their psychology asking for ? A strange, complicated machine, or modern simplicity ? As far as I can see they'll never get on a Canoe), or are you looking at increasing the fun for today's Canoe sailors who want some more adrenalin (already hard users of your special drug, and prepared to do anything to get some more) ?
Look at the Cherub approach. Take existing boats, add a new rig, and make some minor mods to the hulls.
The equivalent for you is so easy to do. Put on a bigger rig, and add some length to the seat and do some local reinforcement to take the new loads. If a lot of you are sailing with correctors, then you could also reduce the weight. You can test this with bits from other boats. Can't be difficult to transplant a rig from some of the skiffs. Cherub, 29er, 14, make a new seat and see what happens.
So more power and less weight with minimal cost.
There's nothing radically wrong with your hull shape, and I think it's one of the lovely things about the canoe.
The proposed hull designs look very surprising to me, much less stable, with lower wetted surface areas, and some extraordinarily extended bow sections linked to the almost traditional canoe sterns.
What are you aiming for ?
Is this about bringing new sailors into the class who might be more tempted by newer designs like the RS700 or Musto Skiff, or some of your American newcomers, (what is their psychology asking for ? A strange, complicated machine, or modern simplicity ? As far as I can see they'll never get on a Canoe), or are you looking at increasing the fun for today's Canoe sailors who want some more adrenalin (already hard users of your special drug, and prepared to do anything to get some more) ?
Look at the Cherub approach. Take existing boats, add a new rig, and make some minor mods to the hulls.
The equivalent for you is so easy to do. Put on a bigger rig, and add some length to the seat and do some local reinforcement to take the new loads. If a lot of you are sailing with correctors, then you could also reduce the weight. You can test this with bits from other boats. Can't be difficult to transplant a rig from some of the skiffs. Cherub, 29er, 14, make a new seat and see what happens.
So more power and less weight with minimal cost.
There's nothing radically wrong with your hull shape, and I think it's one of the lovely things about the canoe.
David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18
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- Steve Clark
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18 years 11 months ago #39623
by Steve Clark
Replied by Steve Clark on topic Re: L'IC10 c'est quoi çà ?
The whole story is pretty long.
The IC adopted a one design hull in 1970. It was a pretty advanced hull, but as you say, 35 years later it looks dated. Also the hull weight was established in 1935 and is heavy by modern standards. Old designs are fine if the class is strong and there are many good regattas and events, but the IC class is not that well established.
The addition of the asymmetrical spinnaker was never voted on or approved by the class as a whole, it just happened in the UK and hasn't really been accepted everywhere else. This has weakened the class and made a boat that is odd, expensive, complex and difficult to sail even more of an pterodactyl.
Our vision is to improve the performance without increasing the sail area 200%. In particular we feel we should be able to sail angles downwind like an A Class Catamaran with just the 10m^2 sail plan. To achieve this, the hull shape must change and the displacement must be reduced. If we are successful, we believe the boat will be very attractive to single-handed sailors who do not want to set spinnakers by themselves or are too heavy for the Hydrofoil Moth.
Further we anticipate that builders in new countries will find it easier to construct a competitive IC without spending thousands on molds and tooling. It is our hope that this will help establish the class beyond the 7 nations where there is activity.
We have considered adding sail area, reducing weight and adding seat extension as you have suggested, but we always end up limited by a dated hull form. The IC was a development class for 40 years, we feel it should be one again.
SHC
The IC adopted a one design hull in 1970. It was a pretty advanced hull, but as you say, 35 years later it looks dated. Also the hull weight was established in 1935 and is heavy by modern standards. Old designs are fine if the class is strong and there are many good regattas and events, but the IC class is not that well established.
The addition of the asymmetrical spinnaker was never voted on or approved by the class as a whole, it just happened in the UK and hasn't really been accepted everywhere else. This has weakened the class and made a boat that is odd, expensive, complex and difficult to sail even more of an pterodactyl.
Our vision is to improve the performance without increasing the sail area 200%. In particular we feel we should be able to sail angles downwind like an A Class Catamaran with just the 10m^2 sail plan. To achieve this, the hull shape must change and the displacement must be reduced. If we are successful, we believe the boat will be very attractive to single-handed sailors who do not want to set spinnakers by themselves or are too heavy for the Hydrofoil Moth.
Further we anticipate that builders in new countries will find it easier to construct a competitive IC without spending thousands on molds and tooling. It is our hope that this will help establish the class beyond the 7 nations where there is activity.
We have considered adding sail area, reducing weight and adding seat extension as you have suggested, but we always end up limited by a dated hull form. The IC was a development class for 40 years, we feel it should be one again.
SHC
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18 years 11 months ago #39627
by David Balkwill
David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18
Replied by David Balkwill on topic Re: L'IC10 c'est quoi çà ?
OK, so if you're thinking along development class lines, then I understand a bit more.
Are the designers who have sent in their ideas ready to put this into practice and build them ?
Would be fantastic to see a fleet of untried designs racing. We got this in the very traditional world of the Classic Moth just a couple of years ago, following a competition launched by a magazine. Lots of fun.
It just needs people who are prepared to put time and money behind their ideas.
What I'm not sure I understand is how much liberty you have given in the rule these designs are made for. Has this been written somewhere ?
Are the designers who have sent in their ideas ready to put this into practice and build them ?
Would be fantastic to see a fleet of untried designs racing. We got this in the very traditional world of the Classic Moth just a couple of years ago, following a competition launched by a magazine. Lots of fun.
It just needs people who are prepared to put time and money behind their ideas.
What I'm not sure I understand is how much liberty you have given in the rule these designs are made for. Has this been written somewhere ?
David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18
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- Steve Clark
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18 years 11 months ago #39638
by Steve Clark
Replied by Steve Clark on topic Re: L'IC10 c'est quoi çà ?
See the canoe evolution link on the australian page.
or copy:
www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/s...lopments%2F13267%2F0
I am planning to build a boat to this rule this winter, Andy Patterson has committed as well. I think Phil Stevenson is going to build over the next Australian winter. Other Americans are going to either modify their boats away from the one design class or will build new. There are also some fairly recent boats that were designed to the old development class rule that can be activated anbd upgraded to the new rule.
SHC
or copy:
www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/s...lopments%2F13267%2F0
I am planning to build a boat to this rule this winter, Andy Patterson has committed as well. I think Phil Stevenson is going to build over the next Australian winter. Other Americans are going to either modify their boats away from the one design class or will build new. There are also some fairly recent boats that were designed to the old development class rule that can be activated anbd upgraded to the new rule.
SHC
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