Comment cirer un skiff?

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19 years 7 months ago #30848 by roblynn
Je recherche de l'information sur le processus de cirer les safrans, les dérives et la coque de skiff.  En particulier, comment déterminer si je dois utiliser un "rubbing compound" en premier avant d'appliquer un "polish".  J'ai recherché de l'information sur l'application des produits maritimes 3M et StarBrite, malheureusement je n'ai trouvé que de l'information sur les produits seulement.

Quel préparation faite-vous avant (et durant) la saison de voile?

Merci,

Robert

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19 years 7 months ago #30849 by pchanez
Replied by pchanez on topic Re: Comment ciré un skiff?
1) Stupide gelcoat pour remplir les trous eventuels
2) poncage

3) polish au teflon avant chaque regatte

Le jour ou l'homme a decouvert le lait, que cherchait-il exactement a faire a la vache ?

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19 years 7 months ago #30858 by administrator
!!!! je te conseille vivement de ne pas polisher ta dérive pour pouvoir monter dessus (vécu... dérive trop glissante...) sinon j'utilise les mêmes produits que toi, le polish c'est 1 à 2 fois par an pas plus because ça enlève du gel coat et au bout de quelques années...

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19 years 7 months ago #30866 by Cédric F
Clairement d'accord avec Gilles : ma dérive de RS 700 est un peu glissante et les deux bains que j'ai pris au Der se sont prolongés un peu trop longtemps du fait de ma diffuclté à attraper et à me hisser sur la dérive.

Sinon, certaines classes interdisent le polish à des fins autres que de réparation. C'est le cas des 4000. Vous pouvez nettoyer au produit vaisselle, mais pas au cif car légèrement abrasif. Ne parlons donc pas d'un polish... Ceci dit, je crais qu'il n'y ait aucun moyen de vérifier.

Enfin, pour cirer un bateau plutôt que d'uitliser de l'huile de coude, une polisheuse est vivement conseillé.

Breizh Skiff Project, YCCarnac.

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19 years 7 months ago #30875 by pchanez
Replied by pchanez on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?
mon bateau est peint, ce qui fait que j'ai pas le probleme que ca vire du gelcoat ... au pire je gagne du poid ;-).

A part ca j'ai jamais pense au probleme de la derive, mais mes equipiers n'en ont jamais parle (moi je vais jamais sur la derive)

Et oui, la polisheuse, c'est pratique

Le jour ou l'homme a decouvert le lait, que cherchait-il exactement a faire a la vache ?

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19 years 7 months ago #30876 by roblynn
Replied by roblynn on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?
Je n'avais pas pensé au problème de grimper sur la dérive. Merci!

On va essayer ça la semaine prochaine...

Robert

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19 years 7 months ago #30877 by Thierry
Replied by Thierry on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?
Il fut un temps où le graphite était à la mode... Avant le Teflon?

Ça vous dit qq chose?

Lyman N°55055 - 1958
Guépard N°114 - 2012
Site Web: www.tgmp-architectes.fr

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19 years 7 months ago #30878 by François M.
Le Graphite! c'est de la préhistoire ton truc! même quand j'ai commencé c'était interdit! trop polluant

J'ai tout de même vu un vieux 505 bois tout graphite sous la flotaison.
Ca devait être sympa: montée sur la dérive (type planche à savon) et puis une fois à terre tout le monde te regarde et parie pour estimer le nombre de déssalage en fonction de la taille et de la noirceur des tache. :D 8)

Si vous voulez aller sur leau sans risque de chavirer. Nachetez pas un bateau, achetez une île. [Marcel PAGNOL]

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19 years 7 months ago #30880 by Thierry
Replied by Thierry on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?

Le Graphite! c'est de la préhistoire ton truc!


A peu prés oui....  ;D  Mais me traite pas de vieux pour autant!!  angry5; ;)

J'avais un copain qui passait son temps à graphiter son 445.. Remarque il fallait bien ça...  ::) 

Lyman N°55055 - 1958
Guépard N°114 - 2012
Site Web: www.tgmp-architectes.fr

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19 years 7 months ago #30882 by David Balkwill
Je pense qu'il est interessant de connaitre l'influence de tout ce travail ...
Voici ce qu'en pense Frank Bethwaite dans un article paru dans Seahorse.

This is an article published in Seahorse, issue "June 2000".
It has always been a discussion: To polish or to sand with 400 grit. Although water seems to run smoother over the sanded surface, is this what we want? Is friction really decreased by sanding? Read what Frank Bethwaite has to tell about it:

Polish and skin friction

Our overriding object in building what has since become the 29er was that "it should sail like a skiff to train for a skiff". This meant designing for tacking downwind, with downwind speeds approaching wind speed. However, this was always going to be increasingly difficult with this smaller boat, because small boats do not enjoy the speeds natural to bigger boats.

The "dynamically humpless hull" offered one path, but because nobody knows what makes a hull "humpless" this was a case of try it and see. Julian suggested that his current to Eighteen footer design would scale down better than the 49er would. So I did the sums to size the new boat for two healthy adolescents, lofted the smaller boat and got on with building it from narrow timber planks edge glued and glassed inside out.

It was always a possibility that the scaling down to 0.79 the size of the Eighteen might alter its dynamic characteristics. So as soon as it was fit to float, we towed it at various speeds and weights to establish whether or not this smaller shape developed the hump in it's drag curve, which is normally expected, or whether it remained another of the strange "humpless" genre that we seem to have happened upon. Its surface, undercoated and dry sanded with 80-grit paper, was fair but not polished. Not surprisingly the drags were higher than expected. Further, there was a hump, but this was a different sort of hump. A dynamic hump would have given a steep drag rise from about six to eight knots, in other words, just above it's 5kt hull speed, and this would have become steeper at heavier weights. What we had measured was a very steep hump between four and six knots, which did not change at all between light (160kg) and heavy (230kg) total weight. We concluded that whatever the reason, this was not a dynamic hump, so we had what we wanted and proceeded. That was in March '97.

Two years later we measured the drag of a polished production 29er. The drag curves, both at 500lb (230kg), of the polished and the unpolished hulls are shown in Fig1. What they show is the different effect on drag of 1) skin friction and 2) a turbulent boundary layer.

Skin Friction.

The smoothest surface always gives the smallest friction, so at all speeds the polished hull will have a fraction less drag than the rough one.

Boundary layer.

A laminar boundary layer will give about half the drag of a turbulent one.

What Fig1 shows are three separate boundary layer regimes as between the two boats.

1) From rest up to some very low speeds the boundary layer is always laminar. In this case this speed is about three knots for the boat with the rougher surface. (You can see that by looking at your wake close to the transom when the boundary layer flow begins to become turbulent.) So from rest up to about three knots the small difference in drag is due solely to the greater skin friction of the rougher surface.

2) At about four knots the rough surface trips the boundary layer of the rougher boat into turbulent flow over the whole wetted surface. The smooth surface of the polished boat continues to run laminar. At five knots this trip into turbulent flow has nearly doubled the drag of the rougher boat.

3) At about six knots the boundary layer over the polished hull begins to trip from laminar to turbulent. This starts at the stern. As speed increases the transition point moves progressively forward towards the bow, until at 10 knots the polished hull too is running almost entirely turbulent and there remains only the small difference in drag due to skin friction.

David Maiden, President of the 49er Association of Australia, commented that he had used a slow-dissolving detergent as a tracer, in order to find out more about the flow over his 49er. He measured that the transition line from a laminar to a turbulent boundary layer was 3ft or 4ft aft of the bow at a speed of about seven knots.

All these measurements suggest that it does pay to polish, and to polish well.

Frank Bethwaite.


David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18

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19 years 7 months ago #30899 by roblynn
Replied by roblynn on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?

Je pense qu'il est interessant de connaitre l'influence de tout ce travail ...
Voici ce qu'en pense Frank Bethwaite dans un article paru dans Seahorse.

This is an article published in Seahorse, issue "June 2000".
...


Avez-vous un URL pour l'article pour qu'on puisse voir les graphiques?

Merci!

Robert

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19 years 7 months ago #30901 by David Balkwill
Non, désolé, je ne le retrouve pas.

En voici un autre.

www.catsail.com/archives/v3-i2/feature4.htm

David Balkwill ; Used to be President IMCA France 06 70 25 30 18

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19 years 6 months ago #31958 by ~ jB ~
Replied by ~ jB ~ on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?
Quelqu'un a déjà essayé de polisher à la polisheuse sur les parties colorées de la coque ?(genre L4000 bicolore comme le mien)
Ca ne fait pas de traces?

A Quiberon il y avait un 4000 avec une coque rouge superbe. J'aurai bien voulu lui demander mais le proprio n'est pas inscrit sur le site...

Mais quelle faute a commis ce Paré pour qu'on cherche toujours à le virer?

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19 years 6 months ago #31960 by pchanez
Replied by pchanez on topic Re: Comment cirer un skiff?
Aucun soucis !

4US est rouge metalise et jaune et on le polish a la machine regulierement. Si tu veux enc.... les mouches, tu peux passer une peau de daim apres pour que ca brille ;)

... j'avoue on le fait 8)

Le jour ou l'homme a decouvert le lait, que cherchait-il exactement a faire a la vache ?

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19 years 6 months ago #31969 by Cédric F
Attention dans les règles de la classe 4000, sauf à des fins de réparation, il est interdit d'utiliser un polish sur la coque ou tout liquide même légèrement abrasif. Bon maintenant on ira pas vérifier ;D

Breizh Skiff Project, YCCarnac.

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